Seas of Change

On March 24th, Mo Salah announced he would be leaving Liverpool after the season. A few days prior to that, it was reported that FSG are not moving forward with a multi-club ownership group, putting Michael Edwards' future very much in doubt. Richard Hughes continues to be linked with a move to the Saudi Pro League. And Arne Slot remains under pressure to turn things around at Liverpool. 

In the latest episode of America's Anfield, Matt and Jonny talk about the exit of a Liverpool legend, and how the club might cope with the potential for so much change all at once.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

You're listening to America's Anfield, the Liverpool FC podcast brought to you by American Brothers Matt and Johnny. From the heart of the U.S. to the COP, we're talking all things reds every week. Welcome back, everybody, to another edition of America's Anfield. You're probably listening to this. You probably got a notification, and we're like, wait a second, I thought those guys were dead. We're not dead. We're back. We have day jobs, guys. We're moonlighting here on the podcast. We're diehard fans. It is an international break, so we're a little bored. Uh, but we're gonna we're gonna give you what you want, what the people, the listeners really want. Johnny's here, myself, and then Matt is also here. Uh, ready to talk some big overview things. Obviously, got some news about Sala, gonna talk about Michael Edwards and how looks like we're not gonna get a second club within FSG. Uh lots of things to be had, but but Matt, we're in a we're in a lull right now. There's no games happening. Uh I know you we we watched the United States be bad. How are you how are you feeling just about soccer as a whole?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I mean, no games could be argued as a good thing for us right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Right. Nothing to lose. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

That's right. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, I first of all, that you know, to your intro, we do have day jobs, but don't worry, the ad revenue is really starting to roll in to check today. Zero dollars. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

That's right. And Brothers Bond called and they were like, Stop it. They were like, Who are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Who are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Yeah, we're not sending you anything. In fact, stop using your name. It's really hurtful.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

You know, I wonder though, we've we tried that. Could we we have referenced near beer, non-alcoholic beer a lot on the podcast because you know, we're in our 40s, and well, Johnny's not quite there, but you know, knocking on the door. And like we've said, we're we're trying to be healthy, and so I'm drinking on one right now, so maybe that could be a sponsorship opportunity down the road, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Love again zero, uh an athletic, you know, like we we're listening, guys. We're always open to a phone call or an email.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

We are. There's a very strong niche listenership here. I mean, let's be honest, these guys are pretty passionate, so you never know. That could be an opportunity, but um, yeah, it is a lull. And you know, the thing that we wanted to talk about tonight was there's potentially like a lot of change going on uh at the club. Obviously, let's talk Salah, but I mean we'll get into like Edwards and Hughes are both kind of had some rumors around them. We've talked about slot a ton already, and and so you know, not to not to like say it all up front, but I mean there's a world where you know all four of those guys are not here, like I don't know, by the end of the summer, yeah, you know, in an extreme case, and that would be really interesting because we went from a place where Klopp left, which was devastating, and still for some people still is. I still am sad. Um but we managed that really well, won the title, and you kind of thought, okay, you know what, man, like we pulled that off. Man United still haven't replaced Sir Alex Ferguson. We pull it off, but then this season happens, and now you have all these links for these guys, and you just don't doesn't look like they're all gonna stay. And so then it's like, no, there wasn't continuity, actually. We're really kind of back in flux again. But maybe let's start with Salah, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

You weren't surprised by the news when you saw it, correct?

SPEAKER_04 3:56

No, I I was fully convinced one way out. I mean, some of the details of it may be a little not shocked, but like, oh, like we're gonna let him go on a free, blah, blah, blah. So, but no, I I thought for sure he was going to be gone on in the summer.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

I mean, we said, I think on a pod, I need to go look at this. We said before the quote unquote interview that he gave that we were like, look, he's gonna leave. Like, this is not this is not looking good. Not working. Yeah, and so I'm not shocked um at all. And I am glad that it didn't happen the way we thought it could happen, like over you know, the winter window and and with no goodbye to the fans and all those things, but um I'm not surprised. I do like have some things I want to talk through about like what it might mean, because well, I'm not surprised the timing is interesting. Agreed, you know. Um, so we can get into that, but I think first, maybe you know, and and we're a little late on this, guys, obviously, but like, you know, the gravity of a player of his stature leaving. Like, I just don't know if we fully comprehend like what that means for us yet, you know. So Johnny did some AI-backed deep research for us here and has some pretty cool stats. You guys are probably familiar with most of these, but like to hear them all at once, I think it it's interesting to just show like how much of an impact Salah has had. And I think it shows like in some ways how underrated he still sort of is when I like think about the mainstream conversations about him.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So, yeah, you want you want to tee it up?

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Yeah, okay. So I got some some big picture numbers, both all comps and premier league. So all comps 255 goals, 119 assists, 435 appearances, and eight major titles. That's in all comps. Okay. Then let's compare that to just Premier League, 189 goals. That's fourth all time in Premier League, 92 assists, that's a joint record for for Liverpool, 51 uh PL involvements, and then 534. 534 open play chances. That's wild. That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And if you think about the very first stat you led with, you know, the goals and the assists, I think that came to you said 377, I think, goal contributions. Is that right? Am I doing the math right?

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Uh or no, three, let's see, I gotta do my math. 350, 365, 374.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

374, okay. In 435 appearances or something like that. I mean, like, that's incredible, guys. That's almost one per game for what, nine seasons?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

So unreal. What makes him great? There's so many things, but the consistency, I mean, that's a big one. Even this year, people are like, oh, he's dropped off a level. I don't really agree with that, like to the extent that people are saying it for the record, but he's still not having a horrible season when you think about total goal contributions. And so I just think like his consistency being great. Think about his first season. Okay. He storms on the scene. We make the we made the Champions League final that year, I'm pretty sure. When he got hurt um in the final, but he had something like, and I'll look it up here and get it right, but he had something like I don't know, over 50 goal contributions that season. 44 goals, 14 assists, yeah. Okay. So then due last season.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

So last season he was 34 and 23.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

So I mean, think about that. So that's what? That's that's 57. 58 and 57.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

58, yeah. Like bookends.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

How many seasons apart? It's incredible. Um I don't think he gets his due with certain Liverpool fans. I mean, like, I was everybody's doing their okay, well, where does he fall in the top 10? And I think Kerriger had him sixth, and I'm like, you idiot. There's no way he's not in the top three or four, you know. Um, no way, probably top three guaranteed. But you know, it it yeah, it's just sad. I mean, we knew this was gonna happen, but like to lose Klopp, to lose Mo, and then let's be honest, like Virgil's coming soon. I would I would think he'll be back next season. Who knows? He's coming soon. That's a lot of change just on the field, like all at once, you know.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I'm gonna give you some more stats here, just so I found them compelling. So we talked about some of these four golden boots, 2018, 2019, 2022, and 2025. That's a joint record with Henri as the most in PL history. The fastest hat trick in Champions League history, six minutes and 12 seconds. That's wild. Whoa. 53 goals in European competitions, uh, seven Premier League player of the month awards, three PFA players player of the year wins, 55 seconds, quickest Liverpool goal in European competition, and my my favorite stone, 16 goals versus Manchester United.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, did you sorry if I'm repeating you? Did you say the he's got the club record for most goals in Europe?

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Yes, that is uh 53 more than any player in Liverpool's history, 48 in the Champions League alone. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, um, I mean, like I said, you you could go on and on and on about this guy. I think the the thing that is also interesting, though, when you kind of lay it out like that, is how close he is to way more, especially from a titles thing. Because this is the same thing with Klopp, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

You know, who knows what happens in the 17-18 Champions League final if he doesn't get hurt. That's one. Two, we win. You know, we yeah, I I think we have a great chance. Um, you have Courtois standing on his head in 2022, and I still can't get over that game. So that's two more Champions Leagues that are on the you know on the table for him. And then we lose the Premier League by a point twice. And so, I mean, that's four more major titles that you could add on to his resume. And look, I'm you know, I don't want to like we don't try to overstate on the pod too much, but like, I mean, gosh, think about it. If he's walking away with three Champions Leagues and Um four Premier League titles, where is he on like an all-time you know, top 10, top 20 list? I don't know, like I haven't really sat down to map it out, but I'm just saying, like, doesn't that kind of vault you into maybe even another stratosphere potentially?

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Oh, for sure. Like, yeah, who would you compare that to? Because uh again, we we were discussing off air before we got on. His his best comp in in my opinion in the Premier League, and I'm not saying who's better, whatever, but I think Henri's probably the closest. Sure. And I think he if he gets those titles, I think he smokes him. I think he I think he wins already.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

I think he does two. And and look, I'm a huge Henri fan. You know, like as much as we bash uh bash Arsenal, just Johnny knows this, but quick aside for the listeners, like the club teams we played for growing up, one of mine was named Arsenal, and they were Arsenal fans. We watched the this is like Dennis Burkamp, like this is you know, some really good teams back in the day. And somehow I ended up not an Arsenal fan. Thank God. You know, the person I would be, you know, it just wouldn't be great. But anyway, yeah. So I mean, I all had to say I'm not I'm an honor fan. I think he was great. But like individual and then the just the team titles, I don't think it would be close, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Yeah, yeah. We also discussed Salah has an incredible winning percentage. Uh so in all comps, 267 wins, and then 77 draws, 77 losses. That's a win rate of 63.42%. It's an unbeaten rate, so wins and draws of 81.7 percent in his entire career. That's pretty unreal. And I threw that out with some comps just for funsies. And so his win rate, 63.4%, Henri's about 59%, Ronaldo's about 63%, Holland about 64. Now, and I will say the interesting thing about Ronaldo and Holland, not as interesting because there's just not many, not as many Premier League games played yet for Holland, and then overall for Ronaldo obviously had more in uh in his time in Italy, um yes, Italy and in Spain. Kind of eight seasons, and then Mo coming up on his ninth. So that just thought that was compelling.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, and how I mean like for Holland, right? I mean, how many seasons has he been at C this is his fourth, is it not? And so I mean, like, yeah, that winning percentage is is better than Moe's, and he's been obviously really impressive. But the thing is, he's gotta do it for five more seasons and then come back and talk to me and not fall off a cliff. And he's the kind of guy I think that might fall off a cliff. I mean, he quite literally can't dribble sometimes, but you know, anyway, neither here nor there.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Correct. Yeah, it's um it's compelling. I I appreciate that you noted as well. A lot of people say he fell off a cliff, and again, clearly, clearly, Liverpool as a whole is not having a great season. Um I still find it compelling. His his numbers are 10 and 9. So we're almost at 20. And again, I know some of those are penalties, what have you, but you know, I think most people are looking at stats among players in his position, uh winger. And if if most people would say, hey, a starter's got, you know, and he'll probably finish the season well above that, I would imagine. So call it like 12 and 12, 24, 25 total. I'd take that. I would take that as a starter. Yeah, and he Sokka, how's he doing?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

100%. Well, that's a that's a great point. In in in in some ways, he's a victim of his own success and his own standards. And you know, like I'm not comparing him to Tiger Woods, but I'm just saying if not anymore. No, yeah, that's bad timing for that comp right. Um, but like, you know, if like people were used to him winning tournaments, it wasn't like, oh, he finished in the top 10, cool, or top 15. Like, if that was his career, like that would have been something different. So, in some ways, we're just holding him up to last year and some of his other years and saying, oh man, what a disappointment. I don't want to get into tactical stuff too much, but uh, but I do think that there is some tactical stuff and personal stuff that happened this season. Like we've touched on some of it, you know. We got rid of forwards that did a lot of dirty work, you know, like a Darwin Nunez, or and obviously he showed it passed away. And so, you know, and then I mean, if you again, if you look at like where his touches are, a lot of them out kind of way away from goal. So I can't say it's all his fault, you know, which kind of leads me, if you're cool with going here now, to like the next question is obviously well, okay, he made this announcement early, right? And we kind of chatted about this before the podcast. What are the reasons for that? You know, I think one is probably, hey, you get a little bit of a send-off. Like there's a little mini tour now, you know, for Salah to kind of, you know, he'll be at Anfield a few times, he'll get a send off on the last game, like all those things, right? Um, but I think there's more to it than that. To me, one, tell me what you think, is this gives other teams a lot of notice, obviously, that he's on the market versus this happening, you know, in like July. We've terminated Mo's contract, doesn't leave a lot of time to figure out the next move, right? Right. Yep. Um, so I think that's interesting. And I think it's interesting, you know, just for that reason, but also it kind of gives me a feeling that he's not necessarily wanting to just go to the MLS. Like, I don't think if there was somebody out there who could afford him, I don't think that would be a super difficult thing to do more last minute. Could be wrong, but it just makes me wonder maybe he's not ready to kind of go Saudi Pro League or MLS. Um, but I don't know. Like, how did you take the timing?

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Probably similarly. Uh, I think there's an aspect where you know you can you can say a lot of things about him, and I know there's sort of like split viewpoints on him as a player and as a person, maybe. But I I can tell that he loves Liverpool, and so I I I don't think he wanted to leave. Um he's also seen that, like he's seen Hendo leave without kind of you know mixed bag over the summer. Yeah, great point. Just um and but he's also seeing guys like Bobby and others go out and and do it right, and uh so I imagine that's part of it. I do agree that I think it's um it's time to sort of get his name out there. I wonder if that's also indicative of of how much interest there is. I don't know. Uh as they kind of need a longer runway to kind of uh attract or figure out the right fit. I agree with you in the sense of, you know, love it, he's competitive. Like obviously he's gonna scream at you if he gets taken out. I think that's that comes from a pettiness, maybe, but also a competitive fire doesn't just doesn't want to be taken out, wants to fight till the end. Uh he's been relatively, I know it's ironic, he's hurt now, but relatively healthy his entire career. And so I think he he just fully believes he has more in the tank. And so yeah, I don't really see him going to the MLS or and also that there have been rumors for years uh uh about Saudi, and I just none of them have really held weight. So I just don't kind of unless he's going for a money grab, which I mean, Lord knows he doesn't need it. So I I think he wants to go somewhere, especially like Champions League's been such a a white whale for him. I I fully believe he wants to go somewhere where he can get into that tournament again. Um, so I I'd be shocked if he went somewhere where that wasn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yeah, I mean, I I agree. It'll be interesting to see where he lands because I also wonder, you know, as much as he loves Liverpool, you're right. He's really competitive. And so is there a tiny part of him that is sort of upset about how this ended and would want to get back at us in a champions league in like a perfect world. You know, you sign somewhere else, oh, here they are in the knockout stages. Awesome. That would for me be something that would be that would really like inspire and fire him up, you know? For sure.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Um I mean he heard he heard just you know, anecdotally, he heard Chelsea buys anybody. So he's like, hey, I've been there. Just a hop, skip, and a jump away to London. Um, do you think it will damper his or put a damper on his uh belovedness in Liverpool if he goes somewhere in England?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I don't. It's different than Trent, for example. Trent's still in theory in the prime of his career. We offered him a lucrative contract. I know it doesn't seem that way now, does it? Um he's doing great. Yeah, he's doing so good. We we but we offered him a lucrative contract, we wanted him to stay from all accounts, and he was like, No, I'm leaving. And and and so that stings a lot more because I think Mo, look, we all know he's on the back end of his career, he's towards the end, he's given us almost 10 years. Um, carried us to a title last season. So the only way it would damper it, and and there's no way this happens, which is why I'm not worried, like, is if he were to go to City or go to United, you know, or go to Arsenal. But number one, I don't think any of those teams would want him. Um, and then number two, um, I just don't think that even if he's really upset about how this ended, I don't think he would do that, you know. And so for me, anywhere else, it would be weird. It would be really weird and kind of awkward, but it wouldn't ruin like his standing in my eyes.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think the teams where it would hurt and would mess it up, he wouldn't go to and they don't want, uh, or or can't afford, or you know, it would be complex. Yeah, and then anyone else, like, yeah, man, like at the end of the day, I feel like he's for the most part gone about this the right way. And um it's kind of clear this season is it was just an awkward one where it's like, oh, we we you know shot for it and we kind of made some adjustments and things aren't working, and so something's gotta give, and here we are. Uh so I wouldn't fault him. I don't think most fans would fault him if he ended up somewhere in England. I don't think he will, uh, but you never know.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

I told you my dark horse candidate is Newcastle. Yeah. And and again, I don't think this would happen, but I one, I'm I think they could afford his wages more so than other teams. Um I think that they're gonna have some money to spend, even if they miss the championship. Champions League because I do think they're going to lose a couple of key players this summer. Hopefully, one of them is not Anthony Gordon coming to Liverpool because I don't want that. But I mean, like I would I would imagine Garmes leaves, you know, for example. Um Tanali. Maybe Tanali leaves, yeah. Tanali's probably still, you know, crying in the basement because Italy didn't make the uh World Cup. But I thought you were going to somewhere different with that.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

I thought you were like crying because it's betting. Sorry. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

No, I wasn't going to take a cheap shot. You know, I just took a less cheap shot, you know, Italy. So sorry. He and Donorumba are pulling each other. Yeah. Um so uh so anyway, I guess like that all those things. And if you wanted to stay with a team that could be pseudo-competitive in the league, that could be an interesting potential step. I don't think it would happen, but again, you know, you could see Mo in a in a Newcastle jersey next season.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yeah, that would be that would be something. That would be something for sure. Yeah, it's hard to it's hard to gauge like because he's also gonna have to take a pay cut. No one's gonna pay that. Uh so that's that's part of I mean it helps that he's going for free for sure. Um, a little bit of a bummer for us, whatever. I'm not bitter. Gotta stop doing this. Uh yeah, there's there's only, I mean, there's been rumors and interest of Italian teams as well, like Romo, um Napoli, like Inter, and um, they've all balked and been like, maybe we'll loan you because they're just like terrified at the price. Uh yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I think that's the why the Saudi thing won't go away, is they're the one that's like nailed on, like, oh yeah, we got the bag, we can do it. So uh we will see.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, and and the last thing I'll say is athletes at this great athletes at this point are so bad at this next step. It's so hard to say, like, okay, you know, I'll leave money on the table, for example. It's like, well, you could go to a team that maybe could be somewhat competitive, but they can't afford 400k a week, Mo. You know, and I'm not saying he's like this, but a lot of guys will be like, no, no, no, I have to make that. I'm not taking a step in. Yeah. It's like, okay, well, that really limits your options, right? Or it's like, hey, you know, I again, I'm I'm imagining this could be a possibility. There's a team out there, a very good European team, who's like, Mo, we we can take you in, got to take a little bit of a pay cut, and you know, not a guaranteed starter, but we'll give you we'll give minutes. We'll get minutes off the bench, you'll be a veteran presence, whatever else. It's also super hard for them to say that, too, to be like, okay, I'm not the guy anymore, you know? And so I think that really does dictate a lot of what happens next. And I mean, like, you know, Hendo's not Mo, but I mean, like, look, Hendo bungled his exit, and then it was a disaster. And the next thing you know, he's at IAX like five minutes later, and they stink, and now he's back at Brentford. And they stink, but they're not bad. They stink only a little less than we do. And um, you know, so I mean, like, as you've just seen time and time again. I mean, like, Michael Jordan on the Wizards, like, what was that was great time.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

That was a great time.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Not a great time. Um, so you know, so anyway, let me ask you this, you know, kind of somewhat related to Mo. What do you think the timing and the announcement and everything means for Arnie slot? Because I I thought that was interesting too. Because a part of me is like, okay, does that mean that that slots staying? Because you could just say, Mo, just wait it out, see what happens over the summer. Maybe the next guy, whoever it is, is like, no, no, Mo, we could use you. We're gonna play a little different, you'll be involved. But he didn't seem to want to wait for that. And I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I thought that was super interesting, too.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Yeah, yeah. I I mean it could be two different things sort of converging at the same time. One one of which is the things we described, like wants to go out, quote unquote, on top in terms of fans, etc., wants uh, you know, to to have a uh victory parade uh with the last few remaining games, although hopefully he'll get to play some of them being injured. Um and then yeah, needs a runway to kind of get his name out there and figure out what's next. I I think he's operating under the assumption. I still think that can change, but I think you're probably right that he's like, hey, I guess slots not going. He's getting the full season uh at minimum. We're not sacking them early. I think they would have by now uh if they were going to do that. Uh, and so it's either that or the other fun part, if you want to play, you know, conspiracy theory, is he knows who the next person is and knows his fate there as well. And is like, well, why am I sticking around? Um, because I think it there's a possibility that you know the party line has been like, we're you know, we're keeping slot till the end of the season. Uh there there's a real reality, depending on how we finish, he gets fired anyway. Uh, or he or he's stays, you know, if we make a run in Champions League or somehow get top four, top five. Um, but yeah, I think it's I think you're right. I think it's probably related to the fact that that seems like the likely outcome. And so he just needs to kind of find a place where he fits better and you know gets what he wants.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Well, the other thing I just thought of is that the the the other side of that coin is that it gives him more control to choose. Like he's not gonna have any say in the next manager if slot gets sacked. Because he's not he's not at that level anymore. And I don't even know if he was in the no on slot. I'm just saying like he wouldn't have any say, right? Whereas so now that's a big risk because maybe the next guy comes in and also doesn't really rate him anymore. Um, so I think doing it now, you can make an argument like, hey, it doesn't matter who it is. Like, my next opportunity, I will choose. It'll be a coach, obviously, who wants me here. You know what I mean? As a part of the recruitment process. So you could argue that too.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

That's fair. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, and there's also a part where I wonder if he's like, I'm gonna get out of here before the ship goes down. Because if he's reading the same stuff we're reading, it's like slot might get fired, Hughes is leaving, Edwards, blah, blah, blah. FSG doesn't want another team. Is it financially sustainable? We might get you know, miss out on Champions League, and then are we like, you know, in trouble financially? Like he might just be like, dude, this whole thing's on fire, I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Which is just a crazy turn of events from you know, not even a year ago.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, for real.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Okay, well, like turning our attention to other things, though. I mean, that like we said at the at the front, there's still a lot of other things that are um in flux too for the clubs. Let's talk Edwards now.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

So I, for one, will say, because I don't want to be a revisionist, I was very happy when Edwards came back to the club. And you know, we talked about him a lot last pod. Um, but I mean, did a phenomenal job in recruitment, and it was good to have somebody back, you know, kind of in control, because he took Gordon's job, essentially, right? Who knew Liverpool had been there for years, familiar with some of the players, like all of those things. Obviously, the major carrot that we dangled for him is hey, we want to do this multi-club thing and then go help us spearhead finding another club. And then the announcement comes a few weeks ago that yeah, that's off. That's off. Yeah, it's uh it's kind of dead, but not dead. No movement, no rumors, nothing. Um, and I found that shocking, to be honest, that we would do all of the work to bring him back because he he was very clear, he didn't want to be a sporting director again anywhere. Right. I think there are rumors that Chelsea, I think United, maybe a few others tried to lure him back into that seat, and he's like, I don't want that. He was you know doing the consulting gig, you know, right? Which is just a cake, cake job, by the way. But but anyway. And so we bring him back, and it's just weird. And then we're not committed to finding another team. I that's wild to me. But but you know, however that shook out and whatever's going on behind the scenes, I mean, Johnny, like if you're Edwards, you're not staying like much longer, are you? Are you having a I'm probably on the phone, honestly, with John Henry or somebody very, you know, uh Billy Hogan, somebody really high up the ladder, and you're like, hey man, like we need to have a serious chat. Is this a thing or not? Like, what am I being paid for?

SPEAKER_04 30:47

Right, right. Well, I wonder too, just play this out. Um, if that was his his focus was like to spearhead that. Is it possible that he's like, nah, I actually hate it? Or like I haven't found anything I like because he is sort of the diamond and the rough guy. We almost had a couple couple options that kind of fell apart. So is this like a a a both, a yes and of yeah, they're saying we're not doing it, but that's at his consultation of like, yeah, I'm not seeing anything I like out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

See, guys, this is what you get here. The conspiracy theory. I like it. I like it. So so really, because I had my hat on in a different, my tinfoil hat on a different different way. Okay. Let's go. So option avenue one is we take it at face value. We just haven't found a club. Maybe there's some red tape we didn't think about, whatever, you know, not a good idea. It's dead. Okay. No, no, no, that's not true. Option two is what you said. Edwards is either irritated at the process, doesn't like it, maybe like he's brought 11 clubs to FSG and they're just taking a dump on all of them. And he's like, guys, okay, come out, right? Who among us hasn't worked at a company with politics and people making calls that are quite frankly dumb? Yeah. Above our pay grade. Anyway, what I was gonna say is, yeah, let's go to door number three, which is is this the statement you give when you are in close negotiations with another team that have broken down? And so you just leak the like F this. We're not doing multi-club anymore. Like, is that how you get them to come back to the table? You know, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

I see, right? Or is it or or is it tour number four where you're like again going with the Mo Salah thing, this ship is on fire. I need to get out of here. Yeah. So we do we do the Ange Pasta Caglo or the Reuben Amarim and be like, guys, listen, this is awful.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

And then well, well, go read if you subscribe to the Athletic. I think it was Simon Hughes who wrote something today about basically the title was FSG or letting Liverpool start to drift here, like what's going on? That could be it too. We're asleep at the wheel. Let's go door number five. Are we still for sale? We were for sale. Are we still in you know, in the black market?

SPEAKER_04 33:19

Are we still that was that was part of it, is like, hey, is part of the the the red tape and the hoops and the things he's having to jump through is like, oh, we could buy him. It's like it's like when you you're you know, not that this would ever happen. Your parents say like, hey buddy, go get whatever toy you want. And they're like, hey dad, here's a switch. You're like, oh, buddy, that's it's a little pricey.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

I don't know, maybe something in the dollar bin. Well, well, or I mean, when you go to sell your house, what do you do? You talk to your realtor and you say, Hey, I want to get the most bang for my buck. What are my options? And the realtor will be like, you know what, you need to renovate your kitchen. It stinks. Like, no one's gonna buy this man. Okay. Knock down some walls, fresh coat of paint. Was it was Esok, the renovated room? We're like, hey, we gotta spruce up the team here. Let's put in 500 milli, and let's be like, all right, now it's time to sell. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

I don't know. Yeah, it's uh maybe, maybe maybe it's just grumpiness. It's like, hey, I want this team, and they're like, hey buddy, I don't we don't want that team.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

That team is pricey, or like maybe he had maybe had his annual performance review, and they were like, hey, um, hey Michael, what is Richard doing? Like, that was we just gave you a lot of money. Like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_04 34:39

And he's like trying to find a team.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

And he's just kind of doing the math, and he was like, Oh, yeah, he goes on the phone first time, yeah. He's he goes to his agent and he's like, Can we like contract extension? And they're like, they're not interested.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

He's like, Oh, oh, get my press guy on the phone, tell him to leak this. Yeah, we're no longer interested in multi-club.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah. So there's that's the Edwards piece, and then the Hughes piece, which but is bizarre to me. Like there's still all this rumors about him going and you know being a director in the Saudi Pro League. Why?

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Is that a parachute?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Like I don't know. It's like, come, listen, I got a really enticing project for you. Okay. I mean, is it enticing? Like that you go from Bournemouth, which is a good, you know, right, well run, bringing a lot of young talent programs to Liverpool, huge step up to the Saudi Pro League. I think that's not a lateral move.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

Yeah, it's lower. Well, I was gonna say, like, as much as I hate to say this, there's only a couple teams where you would go and it would be beyond Liverpool. Like, you can make the argument in the Premier League, probably not. I think most of them are lateral moves, like whether it be Arsenal, Chelsea, you know, Manu, City, whatever. Um, I would say probably Real Madrid's the only one. Like, if you're the sporting director at Bayern, you're just like, all right, who's in Germany that we want? Great. Uh, if you're Barcelona, you're like, is anyone free?

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Uh and then uh, wait, wait, can we pull the 37th lever so we can afford some players?

unknown 36:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

And then if you're in Italy, you're just like, who do we have to pay under the table to get somebody? He's kidding, guys.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

He's kidding.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Yeah, well, listen. Uh, and then that's it. That's it. So, yeah, I I find it really surprising. I I don't know what to think about it, other than like, is he reading rumors about his job? Like, or is he getting smacked?

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah, that's what I think. So let's let's put on the hat again, because it's one of two things. So the the performance review thing, like that's more real for Richard, probably, where it's like, buddy. How do we get worse, bro? Like, what'd you do? Okay. So there's probably some heat, and he's like, Okay, well, you know, before I get, you know, canned, let me find a little soft landing. Parachute. Or, right? Or the conspiracy theory is, and I wonder, I've always wondered if if this like happens at this level. Okay, so there's a TV show you used to watch where like it was a political and like the president is firing uh an ambassador for something, but because he doesn't want to admit what the guy did, it was like you know, gross incompetence, it was like negligence of some of some kind. He was like, All right, well, we can't like fire him and then have the press find out, you know, he's an idiot. So he got him a job, he lined up a job for him on like the board of directors at like a you know a uh private company. Yeah. So I almost wondered, did somebody come to Rich and they're like, look, buddy, it's not working. Um, but don't worry, I got you a job at uh Alhalal. You're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, pulled some strings. You're gonna start there in uh June.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

You know, so West Wang you referenced there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Dude, good poll.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Thank you. I'm an American hero.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Uh so look, American TV show, you know, for the audience anyway.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

For America's Infield. Uh I wonder this as well. So here's my my foil hat is on my tin hat rather, sorry. Uh so is it possible that there's a little bit, and we've read some rumors this season, that there's a little bit of like you know, Edwards Klopp thing going on, probably a little bit earlier than it should, where it's sort of uh my way or the highway between uh Hughes and Slot. And so it weird in the sense that we're doing poorly, but I mean more in the sense of uh who's whose fault is this season? And a little bit of uh philosophy of like, hey, I thought, you know, Hughes is like, we got you the guys that are really good, but we want you to play the young guys, and slot's like, I don't play young guys, get off my get off my face. I'm I'm doing what I want, uh, etc. etc. So I wonder if it's a little bit of like, you know, who's going to go? Is it gonna be him or me?

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, I mean it could be, you know. I mean, if if it's um now you're saying between like Hughes and Slot. Correct. Yeah, I mean it certainly could be. Um, and neither one are on good footing. That that's the funny part. Like when you had the Klopp Edwards spat, I mean, they both had a very strong hand. You know? And I mean, don't get me wrong, you know, yeah, both Hughes and Slot have a title. But I'm saying this season has been pretty bad. It could rally, but it's been pretty bad. And the difference is they don't have the history. I mean, by the time that Klopp and Edwards really split was like 2022. I mean, they'd been to multiple Champions League finals. They'd been, you know, like very, very close to winning multiple Premier Leagues. They'd already won one. So um, yeah, so there was a lot more kind of proof, I'd say, you know, there than in in just history and context. So um, yeah, but but let me let me wrap this up, unless you want to get off on other topics here in a minute. And this isn't like trying to be scary, but just think about what's happening at the club. So again, we lose Klopp, we're losing Salah. You know, again, we we're gonna lose Van Dyke um at some point soon, I would imagine. Okay. John Henry's 76. You know, he's not nearly as involved, you know, I I at least by all counts as he has been with the club. You know, at one point again, put it up for sales. So you've got an aging owner. You potentially could lose the entire important hierarchy at the club. You could lose Edwards, you could lose Hughes and then you could lose slot, right? And it just kind of begs the question who is running the ship in that example. And so, like, is it Billy Hogan? Is it yeah, Mike Gordon? Like, who is it that would want to stay and basically say, okay, like this is mine to run for now? Um, because it's a lot of change, and like, I mean, the thing is, you and I, and we only had the podcast for a little over a year. I mean, this has been a real golden era in some ways for the club since Klopp, you know, came came here in 2015 to now, but there were some dark times before that, and you know how quickly this can turn, right? I mean, like this happened to Man United. This is gonna potentially happen to City when Pep decides to hang it up. I mean, this can go from really good to not good really quickly. And I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen, but I just think it's it's a lot potentially at once.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I I think you you think about as well consistency over time as you as you noted. There's not a lot of that left in the Premier League, even as it relates to management, too, right? Like most of them for the most have turned over. So you think about like Pep being one of them, ironically, Arteta being one of them, there's there's not a lot of consistency there. I don't know, I don't have the data and the stats behind me of uh sporting directors and and the like there. I guess I I guess Eddie Howe's been there for a minute. And anyway, but point being, it you noted before that other managers leaving like Fergie and the like, it's been hard to replace them. It's been hard to find consistency after that. Uh you know, Wenger being one of them until Arteta. Uh so I think that the nervousness that you're pointing out, I have I have nervousness about as well, is like we had this like flash in the pan, but then it's back to the dark ages because we just cannot find and it it I will say one of the hardest things about having a wonderful sort of like you know, team club altering manager like Klopp or like Ferguson or like Wenger is like there's nobody like him. And so trying to trying to figure out what the way of success looks like in in the future in an evolving sort of sport is really hard to come by. So um, yeah, I don't know. It does make me nervous. And then, like you said, the layers on top of it, the fact that like all of management behind him is also going out too potentially is not confidence building.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It's not ideal. And I mean, then you couple that again with, and I'm going like worst case. It likely wouldn't be this bad, but then let's say we don't make the Champions League, and now you have the financial implications of that added to potentially a fair amount of change again this summer. So, you know, it doesn't mean that the club can't come out better for this. There's certainly like very, very You know, highly capable people at other clubs in the world of soccer that can come in and do a good job at Liverpool if it came to that. So I'm not suggesting that Liverpool are screwed. But it's just a lot at once. And I think if you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to our last podcast about Michael Edwards because that article comes out afterwards, and it was like we were saying, man, a lot of times the sequel's just not as good as the first movie. I mean, it's just not. And like this, if he were to exit after just a couple of years, no new club. Man, you know, not blaming him, it's just that's a dud of a sequel.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Right. And and that, if you go back and listen, that's why you want this podcast. I'm just throwing it out there.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

We that timing, oh my god, nailed it ridiculous, guys. I mean, Nostradamus over here, both of us, right? And it's free, guys.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

It is free unless you want to sponsor us. But it's free.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

It's free. Well, if you want to sponsor us, great. But for the common folk, it's gonna be free.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

It's gonna be free for the yeah, for the for the plebe. It's free. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Like you know, we're not just gonna do reads the whole time. It seems terrible. Um all right. Anything else you want to touch on tonight?

SPEAKER_04 45:17

Just a real quick read from Nord VPN. No, uh who does that? No one does. Ironically, I was gonna say the funny thing I was looking at uh just upcoming fixtures is we still have we don't have a Premier League game until the 11th. It's insane. Uh, because we can FA Cup next. And then Champions League. So we have City away and then PSG away. Um what's your just what's your prediction there?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

What I well, I'm not gonna give one other than to say I've got what 10 days. When's our Champions League game?

SPEAKER_04 45:54

Sorry. The Saturday, the Saturday, the fourth. Okay. I'm sorry, no, no, Wednesday, the eighth. Wednesday the eighth.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Champions League game is the eighth. Okay, so I have a week to talk myself into us potentially winning this tie. And that that's that's what I have to try to do here. We got Aesok back in back in training.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Yeah, guys.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Yeah, he's gonna play 11 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Meanwhile, Frimpong is injured again.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

He is injured again, so that means dom it right back. Love that for us.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Our favorite thing. Get the second leg at home, though. That's the key. That isn't work out for us last year.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

But they're pushback. Um Allison has a setback.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Allison has a setback. Yeah. So, you know, it all to me, it all comes down to, you know, it's like anything else. You can't get the doors blown off of you, you know, uh on the first leg. I mean, it you can't be down 3-1 or something like that going back to Anfield. If we can draw that game, or like, man, God forbid, win that game. I mean, again, this happened last year, I get it, but I'm just saying that would put us in a pretty strong position. Because, you know, I could eat this later, but PSG this season's not last season. And it's sort of understandable. I mean, you know, they they were just a team on fire, won the Champions League, and then they had to play in the Club World Cup, and they're probably all just dead, to be honest. So many minutes.

SPEAKER_04 47:20

But um ton of injuries as well. Isn't it the belly's hurt, right? He's not playing.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah, so exactly. So, like, it's not the same team. We're not the same team, but it's not nearly, I think, is as maybe high a mountain to climb as last season would have been. Agreed. Uh, is this quarterfinals for FA Gup?

SPEAKER_01 47:42

I don't know, is it? I think so. I think it's let's look and see. Oh no, it's not quarter final.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

It is the quarterfinal.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

And it's just uh, yeah, okay, so in a way.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah, the I give us no chance. Like here, here's okay, let me let me walk that back for one second.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Pep is not wired this way, but if Pep throws that game, because he's like, guys, we've got seven or eight games left in the prem. We just beat Arsenal in the Carabau Cup, psychological blow. So great. Which was so great. We need to go seven wins out of eight, or maybe eight out of eight to win this thing. I don't care about the FA Cup. I want to ride off into the sunset with a title. So we're gonna play some poo-poo against Liverpool, and they're not even very good. We might win it, but we're not playing the starters. That could happen. That could happen.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

In the sense of, well, and have you read the reports they're expecting, or there's rumors of a 60-point deduction next season? Which is like, I guess, technically not necessarily guaranteed relegation, but likely.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Um I read a very interesting thing today from my whom I would consider a reputable source on social media, that when you look at the Chelsea financial accounts, they might get banned from the Champions League next year, even if they finish fifth.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

Who who? Chelsea? Oh, even though they already got fined?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Because if if memory serves, they got fined by the Premier League, but UEFA can also take action, like if their finances are out of order. So anyway, yeah, I mean, you could have City Point, 60 points for City. You could have Chelsea banned from the Champions League. It's a wild, amazing time.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

Is that what you're saying to me?

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah, you got Forrest thinking about formally complaining to the Premier League before they get relegated, which is gonna be glorious with Tottenham. Do you by the way? This is this that we should talk about this. There is a zero percent chance that De Zerby stays, even with a five-year deal if they get relegated, right? No, no, no. What are Spurs doing?

SPEAKER_04 50:16

He he's going to he's going to resign uh like mid-game if they're losing and they're gonna get like if the math checks out. It's happening.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

He'll walk off the pitch. I'd I would love maybe someone's done this to look at that contract. Did they guarantee it? If I'm him, I'm like, why wouldn't I take it? Sure. Five-year deal, seven games. Maybe we stay up, maybe we don't. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Yeah, he's I mean, he's leaving. It's just a matter of when. But like, you know, he's gonna get relegated for sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

But like it's just can you imagine? Yeah. I can't I cannot believe they did that anyway.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

I mean, I can. It's great. I think it's just like it's a wonderful sports TV.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Okay, let's end, let's end here because we're we're rambling. They nailed it. Who's gonna get who's gonna get relegated? Are you gonna call Spurs now? Who you once called for Champions League, now you're gonna call.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

Uh okay, let me just real quick, let me look.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Uh what if I told you what if I told you maybe not Wolves? No. You lie.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Well, I mean it, yeah. Well, no, that's that it'd be impossible. Wolves, Burnley, and then who, essentially. Wolves will be relegated, Burnley will be relegated.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

I don't think it's gonna be West Ham. I don't think so either. I don't. I think it's gonna be either Forest or Spurs.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be Leeds either.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

And and for Forest, they still have to play um in the Europa League. And so, like, it's just you know, there's also the whole like more matches thing, right? Um, but you know, and they're running um Burnley at home, that's you know, a big game for them, at Sunderland, at Chelsea, Newcastle at United, and then Burnmouth at home. Not great. Not great.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

I will say if if gold differential is the marker, it's going to be West Ham because they're by far and away the worst of those. Yeah, yeah, I agree. But the second worst is then Forrest.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

But then you think about it, I looked at I looked at Spurs run in, and it doesn't look great, but also it's it's better than I thought it was. So you get away Sunderland, not great. Brighton at home, you know, at Wolves, at Villa. Villa's terrible now. So yeah, that's not as hard as a game as it used to be. Home to Leeds, Leeds are terrible away from home. At Chelsea, Everton. So I mean, like, that's why I say either one of those teams because they're not terribly hard, difficult run-ins, but they're not easy either. Where like you could picture a world where they both get like four points out of that. You know.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

Right. I mean, yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be interesting. Here's my other just fun little ditty I'll leave you with Rexum get promoted and sign Mozala. There, I said it. Hollywood wants the king.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

And I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_04 53:12

Hollywood wants the king. Come on, it'd be great. Do you think they would?

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Yeah. That's a way to get relegated real quick, though. Oh, yeah, 100%. 100%. Not because of Mo. I'm just saying you can't spend money like that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

Can't shoot your wide like that. You need you need a whole bunch of players, not just one.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

But look, it but the way the Rexham are going, it's Rexham get promoted, and Salah, and win the Premier League. Right?

SPEAKER_04 53:38

I know. Like they're like the Leicester that isn't Leicester.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

They just keep going up until like then the next season they're in the Champions League, and God knows what's gonna happen. Their stadium is like rinky dink. Like, I think it's smaller than some MLS stadiums.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean it was defunct. If you watch the documentary, like it's it's awful. I mean, I think they I think they like went bankrupt and then tried to resod it and it like failed, and they had to like raise money to like put new grounds. It was it was bad. It was bad.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Yeah, the the Columbus crew. I have season tickets 20,000 2021 and Rexham's like 13. If that, it's like it's like I look at 12.6 to 13.6.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

That's just terrible.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Yeah, okay. All right, let's wrap it. So uh guys, for the faithful group that has continued to be on the lookout for this podcast, we are back, and we're not going anywhere. You know, less is more. I don't need to hop on here and do a YouTube clip every single day that you know is mildly irrelevant. So um, we'll do another pod. Let's try to do one after the first leg next week. Can we do that? We can talk. PSG. Hopefully that's not just a horrible conversation, but let's let's see what happens. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

We'll check in with Jurgen. We'll get his thoughts and we'll we'll convey them here, you know, because he listens. He's a listener.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Big listenership in Germany. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 55:07

Yeah, we do. We do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

All right. For Johnny, I'm Matt. Thank you for listening. We will catch you next time.

SPEAKER_04 55:16

Thanks for tuning in to America's Anfield. If you enjoyed the show, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on YouTube, Twitter, Threads, and Instagram at America's Anfield. Got questions or topics you want us to cover? Send them our way. We'd love to include them in a future episode. Until next time, up the reds.