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Liverpool's Defensive Lapse Proves Costly in Forest Draw

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Liverpool battered a good Nottingham Forest team in the 2nd half on Tuesday but could not find the game winner, ultimately settling for a 1-1 draw; their 4th draw in their last 7 league matches. 

Matt and Jonny discuss the big picture and some quick hitters in what was a very exciting contest at the City Ground. 

Highlights:

  • Another early goal conceded
  • Is the Diaz experiment at the #9 over?
  • Why is Liverpool so poor at set pieces?
  • Andy Robertson's struggles
  • And more!

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Speaker 1:

Hey, this is Johnny and you're listening to America's Anfield, a podcast brought to you by myself and my brother, matt. Passionate fans of Liverpool football, join us as we dive into all things Liverpool as well as global soccer's hottest topics. Let's go. Welcome everyone to another edition of America's Anfield, your premier American Liverpool podcast. I am Johnny, he is Matt. We come to you despondent after a sad draw at Nottingham Forest. A sad draw at Nottingham Forest, frustrating, and so we want to be the first to sort of recap that and debrief our thoughts, feelings, kind of going forward, before we have another match on the weekend at Brentford. Let's just go big picture and sort of reaction as the dust settles. Matt, how are you feeling? What are you thinking?

Speaker 2:

I'm not as upset as I was after the United game. I think that we've had this conversation a lot recently. So in our last seven games this is our fourth draw. And each time we come on and we say, you know, is that a point gains at two points dropped? And I think, as I thought about it last night, your perspective and how you answer that question can be really dynamic. It can change. You could have a thought before the game starts and then you answer that question can be really dynamic. It can change. You could have a thought before the game starts and then you can have a different thought during the game.

Speaker 2:

So, for example, against fulham, we all expected to win. After a red card and going a man down, I would have taken a draw and so yeah, just just as an example. So for this game, if you had asked me, you know, 10 days ago, I would have said I'll take a draw at Forest. They're a really, really defensive team. It's a way they're having a good season. We play like crap against man U at home and that kind of changes my perspective. Going into this game. I really felt like we needed to win Now. I would have taken a draw, but I felt like we needed to win draw, but I felt like we needed to win right. And the reason why I felt like we needed to win is because we're just in this moment that we talked about last podcast, where we could really separate ourselves from the pack and give ourselves some breathing room for the title.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, arsenal had yet another catastrophic injury where jesus now ruptured his acl and he's out for the season. Um city are playing while we're playing yesterday, but they dropped points again. Chelsea dropped points again. Everybody's kind of bleeding right now, and so you just wonder are we going to kick ourselves later? So anyway, with all that to say, I do want to say that I actually, with a good night's rest and a good cup of coffee this morning, I actually feel pretty positive about it in general. Okay, so let me lay out my case for you and then you can argue with me, because I think you're maybe less positive than me. Yes, so the first thing is, this was always going to be a really, really difficult game, correct. Think about it from this vantage point. When was the last time Forest was any good? It's been a long one. Now this is a team that has a pretty good history actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah, for sure, they're a very, very big club historically, but they have really struggled for what two, three decades? I think the mid-'90s maybe was the last time they were really, really good. I didn't look this up, but I know it's been a long, long time. Okay, with that in mind, this is the biggest home game that they've had since when, right, since that time period, so that stadium was ready to explode. The other thing is, if you're a Forrest fan because think about it this way pretend we're forest fans for a minute. You are talking to yourself before the game and you're like all right, we're six back, they have a game in hand, but if we can nick a win, we are three back, right, even with a game in hand, and game on like we are right at their heels. We've beaten them twice. Psychological blow, all the momentum you can talk yourself into, like as a forest fan, that, hey, there's a real chance, you know, for us to be able to do something special this season. Right.

Speaker 2:

And so, um, you know. Then the third thing so that's all the kind of the like, the psychological and the you know, the historical stuff. But then the third thing is remember, last season, darwin Nunez scores on a header goal with like 10 seconds left and, and you know, the whole forest coaching staff is flipping out at the referee for adding extra time and extra time and it took us that long just to win one. Nothing like it was never going to be easy, because they set up really defensively right, they don't necessarily really care if they have a lot of the ball, they're very hard to break down.

Speaker 2:

So for all of those reasons, I thought, hey, this is going to be a really tough game. So I just want to make that clear. And so the reason I say that is in the first half we didn't play well at all, and I think people were at least that I saw on social media were all over us for not playing well at all. Yeah, we're all over us for not playing well at all, and I'm like guys, I get it, but that is going to be a really, really tough game. Like, if you rank our road games so far this year Arsenal, newcastle, forest those are the top three in whatever order you want to give them, correct.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So anyway, kind of rambling. That's why, going into it I knew this was going to be tough and we can get into the specifics of the game later we really deserved to win the game in my opinion. So you can be frustrated that we didn't, but I thought that we deserved to win. We didn't deserve to win against Manchester United. So there's not much you can say. I can't go in here and say you know what, like we should have won that game. We really should have lost that game or drawn that game. That was probably a fair result. So, with all those things in mind, you know you can be frustrated that we didn't find the winner. We can and will and are frustrated about the first goal we gave up, and we can talk about those things, but I think in general, like I'm fairly level headed about it. So that's me, that's me. What's your counter?

Speaker 1:

I mean, I think I agree as a whole with those things, knowing those sorts of things. I think you touched on a great point at the beginning of your analysis.

Speaker 2:

My monologue.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's right when you can't just look at this game and feel frustration or not, in a vacuum. And so there's aspects as a fan base where some of the reaction for me is coming from the fact of we have been this sort of team that can seed early for three seasons now, if not longer, and I'm tired of that dynamic. Totally, totally agree. We're a team of champions and winners and yet we look like we're always on the back foot, especially on the road, against anybody. We kind of drop down to somebody else's level and I'm you know, I think I'm tired of that. Uh, it just looks like there it's not just like we're not playing well. There's aspects where you're like you're not mentally ready potentially, or there's not as much effort there, uh, we look scared or timid and I don't understand that, considering the talent basis on that team. So those sorts of things have me just like. I don't understand that fully, I think I agree it was always going to be a tough game. They've been tough for us on the road even when they're bad, not even when they're good. 100% Tough team, even before Santo Spirit of Santo, when Steve Cooper was there and everybody else like it was just hard team to break down hard, uh, stadium to go to? So all those things, I think.

Speaker 1:

The other frustrations for me, though, is, um, this you know, historically, this is like one of those teams or one of those matches where you're going to look back and say, depending on how the season goes, we got one point in two matches against Forest, like that's just. You know, I don't want that to be the thing that costs us. And you know how many times have we looked back and said like you know, man, I can't believe we lost at home to Burnmouth. Or man, I can't believe we drew this game or that game to just a. And again, this time, force is actually good so far, and so we're not dropping points to some mid-table or lower squad, but there's still an aspect where the fact that we lost to them already at home, early, made me want to get some points to sort of replenish that even more so. So very frustrated at that, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And then you know to your point, your point, like stats wise and xg and all those different things, I think we clearly had the better of the play and and you know, deserved quote, unquote to win, and it doesn't always bounce that way, and you see, you know there's a, there's a lot of teams. They've only lost four times and of those losses I think, uh, well, they gave up three goals each time. So arsenal, newcastle and city, and only one of the one of those was at home, only one, the newcastle one, which is sort of a head scratcher, and I think they lost to fulham at home, won nothing. But so you know, they're not giving up a ton of goals. It's really hard to break them down.

Speaker 1:

I think it's just frustrating knowing that. I don't know tactic wise, I don't know tactic-wise. I don't know what the conversation was with Slott and the squad beforehand, but for me it's like, hey, of all the things that you do, you cannot give up a goal. It's already going to be hard to get a goal. Of all the things to do, you cannot concede, especially in the first 10 minutes. That's exactly what we did. Well, yeah, so let's take the conversation in that direction.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly what we did. Well, yeah, so let's take the conversation in that direction. So I put this out on social media Last seven matches, we have conceded first five times. Not coincidentally, last seven matches we've drawn four. And if you look at them, let's go in order Newcastle we draw, we concede first. Right Fulham we draw, we concede first and we get a red card. Spurs we score first and we win comfortably. Leicester we concede first. You watched that game and we really had a hard time of it, for a while until we were able to pull it out in the end.

Speaker 2:

West Ham walk in the park. United we concede first, we draw. Yesterday, we concede first, we draw. Yesterday we concede first, we draw. And so I think your frustration and I get it because I'm in some ways in the same place is a cumulative frustration, because you have to say that this is a wobble period for us right now.

Speaker 2:

Four games we've dropped points in seven, and this theme that we've tried to unpack on a podcast a few times ago of conceding first, of trying to come out and kind of slow play our way into matches, or because this is what I think about yesterday just being tactically dumb on the goal that we gave up you know any combination of those things and we are giving up goals and we are digging ourselves a hole. There was so much mental and emotional energy that we had to expend in all of these games because we would go down early and we would have these late winters, and that's great and you can kind of ride that adrenaline for a while, but eventually the crash comes you know what I mean, because you can't pull it off every time.

Speaker 2:

You can't keep doing that. It's just not sustainable. You can't do that all the time. So you know I get it. So let's talk the first goal, yes, okay, and get into the match itself. Yes, to me it's not about mentality, actually, like I thought that the first five, six minutes we were fine. Now we can talk about the tactics.

Speaker 2:

Like you said, it seemed like this was like watching a Klopp team in some ways, where I couldn't believe you have not seen us shoot outside the 18 almost at all this season yeah in fact, it's almost like they know not to or they're in big trouble, yeah there's a gag order not allowed yeah, and then you see guys like gravenberg and diaz just lashing horrible not just the moon yeah, horrible shots early, but we had the ball we were trying to attack. It didn't seem like we were tentative, and then the goal happens. So you want to take that one.

Speaker 1:

What did you think?

Speaker 2:

about it.

Speaker 1:

So I think the first thing was they're giving us so much space. They were just like go ahead and creep up. Our central backs were like totally fine to go even past midfield and sort of dribble around trying to find possession, because they're they're congesting every, every passing lane so much that we didn't have a lot of options. So, uh, conate's up in sort of no man's land and he makes that header, which wasn't a terrible header, to be fair, but it was sort of and that was one thing I did notice too like let's stop passing the ball with our head. Oh, my gosh, how many times we turn the ball over because we refused to chest the ball and control it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was weird. It happened so weird so weird, but anyway.

Speaker 1:

So he does an iffy header, we lose possession. Mistake number one is he did not drop back into the into the formation of the back four, and then chris wood saw that and kind of made a run into that space and had to wait. Uh, problem number two is none of our midfielders, gravenberg included, could cover ground enough, and so they made that pass into the midfield and they were already on right at that point. And then, right there when they made that pass, for some reason Virgil van Dijk decides to square up to him instead of conceding ground as well At some point. You have to make a decision there. But at least give Conate time to cover and get back in his spot, because he wasn't in the right position as well. But he faces him up, gets caught flat-footed, then they play the ball forward through to Chris Wood and he can't recover.

Speaker 1:

And he can't recover. And also I will say this too, like maybe we differ on this he didn't really give a lot of effort to recover. It's kind of crazy to me, because at that point in time there's a lot of times where you wouldn't slide. I have no idea why you wouldn't slide there. He's not cutting it back, he's kind of dead ended there. It's pretty clear he's going to one time it or take a rip. I have no idea. It looked like he was kind of half trying, uh, and then I mean I'll throw this out there too, it was an in-step shot first time, not laces, and it went like under Allison. I just thought it was a poor effort from his point as well. So yeah, I don't know, it was kind of just and the speed at which it happened was like giveaway pass, pass goal. It was five seconds. Maybe we shouldn't be that easy to break down.

Speaker 2:

It was really deflating because it was the first time they'd had really.

Speaker 2:

I think any sort of real possession the whole time. I know it's eight minutes in, but I'm just saying it's so deflating for you to come in get a few shots. None of them were good, but you're like, all right, we started off okay, and then the first time they touch the ball it's in the back of the net. And yeah, I agree with you, I can't tell if this is on purpose from Forrest, but there were a couple of times where it's almost like they let Kanate dribble up the field and I couldn't tell if it was one of those things where they are intentionally saying let's let him do that and sort of eliminate himself from getting back so that when we win it there's even more space and now we can just attack Trent 1v1.

Speaker 2:

And when he lost the ball there, if I'm not mistaken, trent was already kind of out of position too, and so that's a double whammy. You can't have that happen in this system. They both can't be eliminated. On that side I agree with Virgil. So again for those who didn't watch it, virgil starts running and facing our own goal running with wood and then decides to turn around because he thinks he might have to play the ball.

Speaker 2:

He doesn't need to turn around there. That is now officially somebody else's responsibility. It's not on Virgil at all. If he runs with wood and whoever had the ball there has a free, you know, dribble in and shoots and scores that, somebody else has to stop that person.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So with Allison, this is something we can talk about real quick. You know one of the things I thought about yesterday. So I think he should have done better too. So he's had multiple hamstring injuries. He doesn't look as explosive to me when he moves and dives and I just wonder. I looked at the goal a couple times, so Wood does place it pretty well. It doesn't hit the post but it's close. But one of the things that separated Allison as the best goalie in the world to me was his range was unreal.

Speaker 2:

And he could make those saves that nobody else could make. And I almost wonder if kind of the cumulative leg injuries are taking to the point now where his side to side explosive when he sort of dives isn't quite what it used to be you know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

And again just a theory, but he either because it's one of two things he either was slow to react to where Wood was going to go, which I think is dumb, because Wood's going to go far post he's not going to shoot that near post Right or he just doesn't have that explosiveness to be able to get there and save it at this point.

Speaker 1:

And so that's my thing.

Speaker 1:

I hadn't necessarily gone the injury route and thought about that aspect of it, but I mean credit to Wood in the sense of I've heard this, I've never been a keeper, but the closer you put it to their feet, where they can't get it with their feet, it's hard.

Speaker 1:

If you think about diving, the first part that's going to get down is your arms, but that's farther away from your feet, right, and so that little gap is where he kind of placed it in between, like where your hip would be sort of, or your leg, because you're not getting down that quick. I think my beef was less of the explosiveness maybe, and more of just one of the things that made allison so good is he could anticipate what you were going to do before you did it and he would put himself in the right position and to your point, like it's wild to me if he lashes that near bar like high and scores like credit to him, man, I don't know what you do there, because you know I know most keepers are trying to think, okay, he's going far bar here. I gotta, you know, angle myself in position, make myself big, and it just seemed like he was kind of surprised by it, which I just, you know, I was kind of miffed by.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, he seemed caught off guard. So anyway, it was sort of a collective failure. But but more to your point, big picture, we cannot give up that goal in that moment. It cannot be that easy, especially on the road, especially given the moment. So right away we've dug ourselves a hole.

Speaker 1:

And that affected the first half, basically the rest of the first half more or less it totally did and it feeds into everything that I kind of led with.

Speaker 2:

So the stadium's ready to rock and they score eight minutes in.

Speaker 2:

And that stadium is really, really ready to rock. And now it's going to be infinitely more hard for us, and it was, and for a while. There you're thinking okay, we cannot give up a second. If we give up a second, it's game over. There's no chance that we're going to score three, probably not two, right, and you know so, survive it. And then we get to the second half and the next question I want to ask you so we kind of touched on the goal and Allison. The next question is Diego, jota and Diaz. I think this nine experiment with Diaz has got to be over now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I totally agree. That was on my notes. Just in terms of we've said this a lot, even as it relates to Nunez and others. I think the difficulty with our squad right now is we're putting people in positions where it doesn't suit their skill set, more suited as a nine because he's bigger, he actually does. I think he does a little bit better in terms of dribbling and possessing. He's not quite the um, you know. I know an aspect of a nine, like with for me, you know, is being able to include others or distribute or those sorts of things. I think he would struggle there a little bit, but I just I feel like, uh, diaz, it just doesn't suit him. I think he really does more damage offensively for us in space, creating matchups and those sorts of things. But I guess the other question that I tossed to you too is okay. So Jota comes in, scores a goal in like 22 seconds. All right, can we play? Can we start him? What are we doing? Why are we wrapping him up and playing him for like 11 minutes?

Speaker 2:

Well, I'll talk both. So Diaz can work as a nine in a game where he can get behind the last line and that's not yesterday. Right force isn't going to give you space behind, none. The thing that he does give you is you can kind of give him a little creative license to all right, just move into the pockets here that they give you and then just work some magic. But it just wasn't working yesterday. You know like collectively I didn't look this up, but forest must have blocked a hundred shots and crosses in that game.

Speaker 1:

You want to look that up, you know and anyway it just wasn't working.

Speaker 2:

But the second reason for gackpo to your point is that we also seemed to want to do this. Tell, tell me if I'm describing this well. We get the ball on a middle flank, so middle right side of the 18, middle left side of the 18. And instead of playing an overlap where we've got a fullback or a midfielder kind of overlapping for a cross, our guys are going to turn and try to play this curled ball to the back posts on six, we did that about a hundred times as well yesterday, to absolutely nobody.

Speaker 2:

To me, one other reason to have Gakpo at the nine is that it gives somebody to get on the other end of that. You know, from a service standpoint, he's very good with his head. He scored multiple header goals. He's taller than Diaz. That would have made more sense to me, if you're going to be able to do that, to have some sort of a target player. Now to go to Jota. I had the same thought as you. I read this this morning and I don't know if it's accurate or not, but it was in the Athletic that he actually had an injury setback after he came back from the chest injury recently and that after he came back from the chest injury recently, and that's why we've been managing his minutes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I did see that. I did see that. I do recall or something, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Which is a lot more understandable than if we're just kind of wrapping him in wool and saying, hell, we can't play him 90, because the game, you know, indisputably shifted, not just because he scored right away off, you know, off of a corner kick, but I mean, he had the two best chances for us after that too, and you know, sells their goalie, by the way, was giving me uh, champions league 2022 vibes. I, I was sick to my stomach. That guy was on his head making save after crucial save.

Speaker 1:

If not for him, we might win 3-1 frankly, true, I mean, and you know we got really unlucky with a couple from sol either going over or wide, that guy at the post that made that one deflection, um so um, you know, like you said, that I think the stats second half was so, so much better in terms of, you know, the first half. It seemed like we were flustered, obviously, behind one nothing. We just didn't really have any ideas and we're just like lashing at things, doing the things, that kind of going through the motions of what we know is right to put a ball, like you said, across. But our service was terrible. Our service improved in the second half. We had more, uh, more possession and some dicey things in the box. Um, we just couldn't, couldn't actually get one in. But To your point, I think Sells has played really well against us. Historically too, he's done really well, so credit to him.

Speaker 2:

He was the man of the match. There's no doubt about it. Next thing this kind of ties into Jota. Our set pieces are horrific.

Speaker 2:

It is officially time to talk about this. Yes, so not just the fact that we don't have a high conversion rate on them. I don't really understand what the strategy is with them, and the service is terrible. We can't get anything over the first man, specifically Andy Robertson. But what's going on with our set pieces? Now, look, I understand the irony that we scored on a corner kick, but I'm saying there are so many. It feels like to me just eyeball.

Speaker 2:

When another team in a match gets a set piece against us, especially if it's close to our goal, I'm terrified because we're going to do this offsides trap and there's a high likelihood they're going to get a free header Right Any time Arsenal take a free kick and we make fun of them, but the reality is, anytime they get a free kick it's very dangerous.

Speaker 1:

Yep Anytime we get a free kick.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, all right, this is just going to be a waste where nothing's going to happen.

Speaker 1:

Well, so here, here's the two things that I would say. With that Number one, yes, service has to improve. So maybe it's the point of, like you let somebody else, uh, are we gonna let somebody else take them? So, uh, you know whether it's. Although simikas got one, I thought without trent was going to redeem himself and shoot, and then simikas like chipped it to the guy in the front of the box but, um, so anyway. Um, I think one of it is just thinking through, like, what is our actual approach? And actually having better service.

Speaker 1:

The biggest beef I have and it's it's related to this type of match where they're throwing every person behind the ball. We have no space to operate in. We always opt for free kicks, other than corners or something super close, to do a quick restart and possess the ball. That's the last thing I want in this game. The last thing I want in this game is more pointless possession, which we had 80% of in the game, 70, whatever. We can't break them down. Do you want a free cross into the box? I do, and so like it kind of boggles my mind that when we have free kicks, there was half a half a dozen times where we get a free kick that was like 10 yards in front of midfield and I was like, all right, set it up and cross it in there, like I don't understand why. Instead we're like, no, just like pop it down and possess because, like, we have that, we have that already, we don't have to work for that, they're giving that to us free.

Speaker 2:

I think in the box, think about what we have on the roster too, so on a corner kick or on a dangerous free kick, where we can whip the ball in the box. We've got virgil van dyke yep, we have kanate yep, we have. Usually. We have Cody Gakpo Yep, all on the field, all on the 18. Yeah, I don't understand. Look, I think Arnie and his coaching staff are really smart. They're really tactically very, very good On the margins here.

Speaker 2:

This feels like a massive opportunity because there's going to be more games like this. Right, we're going to get into games down the stretch where teams that are fighting for relegation are going to be like we need to scrap a point here, we need to park the bus and we need to 10 men behind the ball and see what happens In those games, especially to be able to say if you're going to do that, don't worry, free kicks are also a good weapon for us. That would be ideal. Or if you're going to do that, don't worry, free kicks are also a good weapon for us. That would be ideal. Or if you just have one of those games, if you didn't want, you know, one of those games where just the free flowing stuff just isn't working Right, and so, with those three guys on the pitch, and then Joda shows that he's obviously good with his head, am I missing people?

Speaker 1:

Like Diaz can as well.

Speaker 2:

Diaz can as well. Yeah, it's. It's like and then the stuff that people get away with, that the premier league lets you get away with the dark arts that are happening in the box, guys. You know, I don't know if we're having like a philosophical aversion to it where we're like we can't be that way. That's so dirty. Well, no, I get in there and let's do it.

Speaker 1:

I think you have a point. There's certain teams that just like we're better than that, like we don't have to lower ourselves, so, like you know, taking a free kick from midfield to cross in the box to score a goal, we're just going to possess you to death and, like you know, cut you apart. Be clinical and figure it out. I think city's that way, I think we're that way, I think tottenham and chelsea can kind of be that way at times, but I think you know again, I don't want to say any nice thing, nice things about Arsenal here, but at least they know hey, like, when you get a ball in the box, anything can happen. And I think they they've shown that in real.

Speaker 1:

I think Newcastle similar in that way. We're just like hey, get the ball in the box, keeper falls down, you know the ball's dinking around and we just poke one in, and they're just willing to kind of lower themselves to do that, whether it's lowering yourself or not. But I'm just kind of over that aspect and I think even even in that aside, it's like we have a free kick, let's get it in the box, especially against a team that's already giving us possession. It's giving us possession that we already. You know, we want, we have. We don't have to use the free kick for that. We already have that. Like put it in the box. See what happened. Like honestly, I think we were most dangerous in the second half because we had the ball in the box so many different times. Ball was dinking around.

Speaker 2:

We had so many chances in that in that way yeah, it's a fair point, so I don't want to beat this to death, but I'll just add to that it irritated me against united because onana is awful on corner kicks I know know. Frankly, sometimes you can't even catch them. I think he had given up. Are they called Olympicos or something like that, where the corner kick goes in?

Speaker 1:

without anybody touching it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, He'd given up a couple of those. We didn't even try to make him uncomfortable. And then yesterday, strategically to kind of what you just said they've already got 10 guys behind the ball, so starting a quick restart doesn't do anything. They're already set up. If you whip the ball, in worst case scenario they're going to boot it out to midfield you get it and they're already set up again, so didn't understand that.

Speaker 1:

No, I agree.

Speaker 2:

All right. Next thing I had kind of related to the, to the goal and the free kicks. So Simakas comes in right away, gives a great free kick off a corner, much better service, and we score right away. And you know, robertson really struggled again yesterday with his service but also he just looked kind of mentally like he had a couple times. One time he passed it straight out of bounds to somebody I think it was to gackpo maybe, or diaz in the left flank.

Speaker 1:

I had that chance where he just like fell.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there was another time where we worked a pretty good move and it came to him to whip it in and he like hit a balloon ball about. You know, 40 feet in the air too far, do you think? Look, I love Andy, I'm not going to the place where it's over, but do you think we just need to kind of sit him down for a few games and let him mentally he like? To me it looks like it's confidence, it looks like he is struggling mentally right now. And I almost wonder, now that simicas is fit, if you just give simicas a run of games, you put your arm around robertson's shoulder and you say, hey, man, listen, we're gonna figure this out. Let's just get you behind the scenes, get you in some training, let's just kind of rebuild this. What do you think?

Speaker 1:

I think so I think the yeah that we we've seen this too, sometimes within sports. It's one of those things where, the harder you try, sometimes it can get worse, not better. Especially if, like, mentally, you're pressing but you're pressing sort of in the wrong ways and I think the one thing you'll never, you'll never be able to get on him is the fact that he doesn't put forth effort. You can see it like gaming game, game in, game out.

Speaker 2:

He's going to give you everything he's got. The work rate's still there.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, like you know his overlap runs and like trying to make in crosses and passes, but some of the cynicalness is not there. So yeah, I think it would be helpful to just say, hey, not punitive, but like let's take a beat, let's get Plymouth or something like that in an FA Cup or a I guess not care about, but uh, but one of those matches where we can kind of, or maybe champions league, where we can kind of get flesh some of that stuff out as well. So I think that would be helpful.

Speaker 2:

I agree. Yeah, I don't know how long Gomez is out for, but I also would still advocate for playing him on the left or I've said this too If Arnie slot seems to be this kind of outside the box thinker, connor bradley on the left right I'm here for it. Right, let's put our best guys on the field. If you can't see a lot of time behind trent, move them to the left.

Speaker 1:

See how it goes that's true because, because bradley can just do the um, he can do the uh, the greelish right. He doesn't have to cross with his bad foot. He can just like chop, chop back in, pass in with your right, good to go. Or the the um. What's the name of the other guy that's on there? The uh doku. He does the same thing, right, he's just like chop, chop. I can't use my left back in with my right.

Speaker 2:

Chop, chop the. Yeah, I'm doing nothing.

Speaker 1:

Actually I'm not doing anything. Uh, yeah, no, I have, I have zero problem that. I think that would be totally fine.

Speaker 2:

Okay, next topic we need to talk about Salah, I think, because you know, look, I don't. This is me kind of taking a shot at him here, Like I understand how great he's been, I understand the season he's having and how important he is to our team. The thing that's interesting and I can be talked either way in in in in this conversation is that there are games to me where it's pretty clear that he just doesn't have it, and yesterday was one of them. Um, he, there was, I can't remember when it was, but you and I were texting about this. There was one move where the ball came to him and the the upper corner is wide open and he put it about 15 feet over and it was just like how, how did you even hit it that high right um, and he just he was sort of wild in some of his crosses too, like he loves that outside of the foot. One and one time it was like okay, but there's nobody in the box. Dude, what are you doing?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it was like his version of that bending ball. The back post, yeah, but bad, our good friend. I think it was nico william that bending ball to the back post.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but bad. Our good friend I think it was Nico Williams, former Liverpool guy kind of had him pretty well covered the whole time. He couldn't get behind him a lot.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, the thing that is frustrating is I get it. He's come through for us late so many times when he's been playing like dog crap. Like I get that Right and there's gotta be a feel for one. He can't play 90 minutes every single game, right? He's going to get run down, which is going to lead to more bad performances, which is going to lead to us struggling.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And two, there's gotta be remember when we talked about this with Kwanzaa, like I feel like there, yes, there's different leeway for different players and Mo Salah is obviously different than Jarrell Kwanzaa, like I understand. But there's got to be some accountability where, hey man, you just don't have. Today we're going to try something else and I just don't understand why he is so untouchable all the time. Because I just wonder, in a game like that, if you give Elliot a run, if you mix it up and you put, you know, if you want to keep Gakpo in the game, you know, maybe you push Diaz out to the right you know, like Kiesa, you know apparently was on the bench yesterday.

Speaker 2:

Have him go in anyway. I mean, is you can talk me either way, but is that? Is that too harsh of a take?

Speaker 1:

Do you think, like, would you have done that if you were slot? I mean, it's risk reward, right. So like, if, if you do it and it doesn't work, people are gonna make mention of it. I don't think slot really cares about that, um, but you know they're like, how would you take out the? You know the player that's had 30 plus goals and assists. Why would you take him out? And you look back at it? You know, like you said, how many times does he come, come through late, um, I think the thing that that and maybe I don't know this is necessarily related. But you know, obviously I haven't signed him to a new contract, um, he's aging those are some of the things there but has been phenomenal overall this year against a team like this.

Speaker 1:

He struggles too, because the one thing he can't do and I think it was very evident in this game is he can't beat people on the ball anymore, just can't do it, and he tried like. He still has the speed so he can get by you If a ball is played in space and on the rare occasion he can beat you, but it's more in movement, it's not just like I'm going to run at you with the ball. It's different. So the times he beats you it's like I was played in a through again or something of that sort. So that that was the thing.

Speaker 1:

For me is like, hey, similar to our creative responses in the first half, like those things aren't working, should we just try something else? No harm, no foul. Obviously he would take offense to that. But yeah, I think at that point if you're like 75 and just be like, hey, we just want to try something else, like it's one one, uh, we need to try something, to try and get a goal. But yeah, I think to your point. I don't think it's out of bounds, but I think you're going to get hammered for it if it doesn't work and you're the genius if it does.

Speaker 2:

I just think, look, it would be incredibly hard to manage these guys Like I get it. It's not. If you're Arnie Slott, if you're Klopp, if you're Pep, these big-time managers who have big-time personalities on your team. It's not easy to just say, hey, you're coming out because you've got to live with it behind the scenes for a while.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But I think the place that my mind goes is there's a way to spin this, for it to work for you.

Speaker 1:

So it's not a move.

Speaker 2:

You can pull all the time. You can't take him out at 75 every single time. He's not playing well, because he'll probably turn on you. But if you can do it strategically, because I actually think it would piss him off enough to motivate him and motivate him to prove you wrong next time, which is great, that's what you'd want, so you know, yeah, yesterday just felt like a day where he just didn't have it. Now, in fairness to him, he does make you know he almost scores late Sells makes an incredible save again.

Speaker 2:

He doesn't have it quite wide enough to the corner for it to go in, and so, of course, if Sells doesn't save that, it's 2-1 and Sells saved the day, and that's the narrative.

Speaker 1:

But I don't know.

Speaker 2:

Or the one on the back post too, where the guy was on the post saved it too. Yeah, off the line. Yeah for sure. So you know he had moments. But you know I, I like I said I I wonder if there are times, let me throw a third one in here too. Actually, you know, you also, the thing I worry about sort of with squad rotation is the lack of rotation.

Speaker 2:

So harvey elliott like doesn't see any time anymore at all, kiesa has been injured a lot, he doesn't see time and you know at all right, some of these guys endo doesn't get in the game again yesterday. I don't think, and I think that I still think, that we're potentially going to need these guys and it's gonna not work out when we do, because they're either going to not be match fit you're not going to match sharp, they're not going to be work out when we do, because they're either going to not be match fit, they're not going to match sharp, they're not going to be confident, and so from that standpoint too, you can make an argument alright, it's just not Salah's day, and I need to give Harvey 15 here.

Speaker 2:

Man, he's earned it, we've got to get him some time. So that part of it makes me wonder too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and it's weird too the way that guys are getting minutes even into those games, because elliot didn't come in in our fa cup match today, right. So I think that's very odd, uh, and there's a lot of smoke out there about him and nunez moving on, uh, and and being told that they're not in plans for the future, etc. Etc. I don't know how much I believe that, especially with elliot, given his age. Uh, you know history and talent with the club. But yeah, I just think I think the biggest reason if I'm honest, like Slott really likes this idea of like I have a one and a two, like a Varsity and a JV in every position and he doesn't have one in Salah's position. So I think it's justifiable for him to be like well, he's going to play, like he has guys he can play there, but I don't think he trusts them at all and I think Harvey he feels like is like a shove in that position, and I think that's been Elliott's biggest issue is he's positionless. To a certain extent, he's like not quite a 10. He's not quite a winger on that side. He can sort of do both, but I think that's one of the other reasons where we have Nunez and Jota at the nine, gakpo and Diaz at the left, salah and nobody.

Speaker 1:

Because Chiesa's been dead and dude he's like I wondered why he didn't start against Accrington Stanley. It's because he was ill that week. What is he eating? He's always ill. Wait, who was ill? Chiesa? Who's sick? How many times has he been sick? He's been injured and sick, but like what kind of sick? So just bad luck maybe I don't know, but anyway, no, I agree, I think we need to on occasion rotate there and it would be good, but he'd like slap you on the way out.

Speaker 2:

So why don't we do a couple of positives and then we can kind of look forward to the next match, that's good, because I've got to go to the bus.

Speaker 2:

yo yeah you've got to go to the bus, so all right, I'll give a couple quick ones. I thought Trent was much better yesterday. The goal wasn't great, but there were a couple times late, if you noticed, where there was a chance that Forrest could have a little bit of a break and he was really really, really hustling back and, I think, dispossessed somebody once and that was good to see.

Speaker 1:

That was really good to see Agreed Gravenberg.

Speaker 2:

Certainly not somebody that should be shooting the ball ever, apparently based off of evidence from yesterday, but in that sort of inverted center back role that he had to play.

Speaker 1:

I thought he was terrific late.

Speaker 2:

I really did Like a very, very impressive performance from him, especially in the second half. Yeah, I know no.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like a very, very impressive performance from him, especially in the second half. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree I think to be negative. More so I would like to see him figure out.

Speaker 2:

Let's end with some positives. I'm going to be negative.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to be negative. Well, you touched on it. I think those things were really well done. I just think he needs to figure out, remember, he would make Klopp so mad because he got caught going forward all the time uh and like, but he he doesn't have like an offensive impulse in his body. It doesn't seem like there's half a dozen chances where I was like you should shoot there and he doesn't and he's like looking to cut back or slot balls and things like that. So, um, yeah, I mean obviously I think one of the positives easy, easy softballs is, uh, joda.

Speaker 1:

I mean I would just need to get him in the game more and be able to kind of see that effectiveness and his ability to nick goals actually go in more and more and more. I think a lot of people gave Kanate a bad run and he hasn't been awesome, but I think it's been great to actually have him in there. Can you imagine if we did not have his ability to kind of jump back in, especially with Gomez hurt? Not that Kwanzaa couldn't play, so I was happy about that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that I have a ton of. I guess I would say too I'm happy to see Dom back too. Having him in that game was really helpful, given how much we had to kind of move around. I just wanted to see more creativity, but it's a tough game against a low block.

Speaker 2:

Well, and we didn't give you know. Look, I know you got to run. We didn't give enough credit to the flurry in the second half so you had joda had a move within your post where cells makes a great save.

Speaker 2:

There's a rebound that joda hits really well that somehow sells saves with his leg. We have the one that he made on sala that's going to the upper corner. They clear one off the line from sala. We had so many chances to score and that's why I think we deserve to win the game, and so that really is a positive. Again, this is the second place team Forget the name Forrest going into the game second place team in the league away from home, and we were battering them for a good portion of the second half. So that is a positive, even though we couldn't pull it out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, we just need to. We need to find a way and not stop conceding early, like we said, and find a way to get some of these in the net when it matters most.

Speaker 2:

Agree, all right. So looking forward, liverpool. Here's the next four Very interesting so away at Brentford Saturday, home dip switch away at Burnmouth and then away at Everton in the rescheduled Merseyside Derby. We are going to have some highly charged away games here. We're going to find out. Is this blip going to continue or can Liverpool turn it around and get some momentum again? Despite this four draws and seven games we still have a good lead at the top of the table. Still feel good. We're bleeding a little bit here and we don't want to let teams back into the race right.

Speaker 1:

Well, and this is the one now to your point, with man, you, and, and then this game. Now you're like brentford away, kind of need to win that one. Uh, and they, they have a different version of dark arts for this where they, you know, we've historically had trouble against set pieces with them, or darwin's back, though he's going to chip the keeper.

Speaker 2:

This time it's going to happen, just like last season.

Speaker 1:

Was it him where he scored off his butt? I forget who that was. Remember when the keeper tried to clear it and went off his butt?

Speaker 2:

It might have been him. It might have been him.

Speaker 1:

You want to win those. The other nice thing is we have a couple Champions League matches where Mab we can round into form against leo and psv, so in those premier matches. So totally, uh, yeah, here's hoping, here is hoping all right, well, hey, thanks for listening.

Speaker 2:

Everybody again, check us out on social media, uh, like, subscribe, share the podcast and we will do another recap, uh, after the brentford match.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah that's right after the weekend. Yep, all right. See you guys, uh, next time.